Jon: All right. We are getting ready for this podcast. Peter Harris from the University Growth Fund is carefully diving through his his deals to give us a university growth fund update.
Peter: I we just start the podcast and I'll talk about what we backed.
Jon: I think we have started. We are live. All right. So on this episode of the I almost had the university growth on podcast because sometimes it feels like that should be.
Peter: It's really just the Peter Harris pontification and podcast.
Jon: Which is very, very good. And then and then Jon Bradshaw pushing back on him like every visit every founder does. We had a after one of our episodes a few weeks ago. You said the thing you hate about a DC universe is all these entrepreneurs argue with you and you're like, Hey, you ask me for my opinion and I share it and you argue with me.
Jon: And I hate that part about my job. And I'm like, Sounds like the podcast Interstices opinion. I'm like, But you're wrong for this reason.
Peter: Was that on the podcast? Or that was just our channel chatting.
Jon: That was our. Like, there's like a VC thread we have on WhatsApp. Yeah. Yeah. But it came up there.
Peter: Well, my point was entrepreneurs always ask for feedback and there's like, there's no there, there are no rewards for giving honest feedback.
Jon: Only it's, it's actually pretty risky to give honest feedback.
Peter: It is really risky because if you give honest feedback, I mean, ultimately you're like he that baby that you've like poured your sweat, blood and tears into is ugly. And then they're like, You know, how can you not be emotional about that? Right. I think it's really hard.
Jon: Or it's like, you don't believe me personally. How do you not I me.
Peter: And sometimes it's true. Sometimes, like, I can't give you feedback because the feedback is I wouldn't back you as a person. That's a hard I don't think you're a bad person, but I'm just not giving you money.
Jon: Personally, for the most of transparency, there was a while. I'm like mad. Peter is not even. I'm like, I don't know. I've got a winning pitch deck for appointment when Peter starts making intros and then he never has, never have for this. And I'm like, Am I that ugly? Like, why does Peter not get it? How does he not see the vision?
Peter: When have you once asked me for an intro?
Jon: I'm a believer that when the the flower will bloom voluminous, ready? And you were involved enough and you know enough that when you saw the match, I wouldn't have to ask you would say it's time.
Jon: Fair. And so in in most cases, whether it's sales for code base or whether it's fundraising, I think there's certain things you do to plant a garden to tell it. But a carrot is only ready to be plucked when it's time. In most cases, I think it manifests itself and and this could be more of a not me being aggressive enough, but it'll just happen.
Jon: Like you giving me an intro just to help me to get another intro doesn't actually you're it's not really helpful. It's plucking a carrot. That's not right. Is that a good gardening analogy?
Peter: That's true. So and I look, I would be hesitant to introduce you until I feel confident that you would be successful because I wouldn't want you to burn that bridge.
Jon: And I'm also super, to be fair, on my side, the older I get as a business professional, the more selective I get. Like when I do introductions for other entrepreneurs to see, like I have a specific list, I go through and it's very much like I need to know traction, I need to know numbers. And my, my. A literal introduction to another VC will be I did one, I think I did one with you.
Jon: I said, Here's this individual. They say the revenue is at $6 million. Yep, they're projected to do 20 million. Here's their URL. And then and then do.
Peter: You want the internet?
Jon: Then you want the intro? I don't even say I don't even like lob over like I used to. Just CC everyone. Now it's do you have your permission to continue? Yeah. And for me, where I'm not getting anything from it, it's a very expensive process but it's, it's an entertaining and professional network and because you could get harassed or bombarded all the time.
Peter: Sure, sure. Well, and the other thing is, you don't want to be known as like the guy that sends over crappy deals. Right. Because like, over time, then it's like, hey, guys, another deal from how many deals? I guess I'll I'll chat with them. But like, now it's going to be like the last four dumpster fires, right? I probably.
Peter: That's not the one you want. That's not the reputation.
Jon: How many deals have I sent you? Like three.
Peter: Or four. I'm not saying you send me bad deals. I just saying that, like, you don't want to be that.
Jon: Guy I sent you one that you invested in. I think I've only seen two or three or four.
Peter: Yeah, you've always had a few. And they've been great and I take every one, but I've.
Jon: Only sent like probably three or four in ten plus years.
Peter: That's pretty fair.
Jon: Was Garrett are you one of those now? Gary G was different. Probably not, because I don't think I knew that well back then. Yeah, but for him, I introduced him to all of the Utah investors and the site for me.
Jon: That time, At that time we.
Peter: Provide a number of super well at.
Jon: That point when I was running with the Utah Angels that investment group, you were just far enough outside my reach. You never came to you like like Blake MARZOUKI would come to university girlfriend meetings. Greg Warnock would.
Peter: Come to you to angel meetings.
Jon: Yeah, but you never did. Yeah. And then the Park City Angel Group was also another group I was aware of. Yeah, but, like, I just never crossed paths. The only crossing path was, Hey, we're pitching this group in this group. But I'm like, Great, I don't care. Yeah, cause we don't find anyone in Anyways, I think that's how my experience at the universe Ed to Angels was.
Peter: Welcome to Angel groups.
Jon: It's a professional network for people pretending to invest. And pretty much I maybe I said I don't. I don't attend. There's a couple angel groups that I don't attend for that reason, just because it's a bunch of people pretending. But probably it's a great network.
Peter: I don't know the ones I've attended. Always fun.
Peter: I've always felt you get to hear some pitches you need to ask some questions. You get a steak dinner, you know, you eat at home now with your buddies and it's a good time.
Jon: Then you go home and the and the founder.
Peter: Things that they had an amazing meeting and that they're going to get like checks.
Jon: And they stressed out. This is the part why I hated angel that is because like they probably were stressing over this meeting for a month because we would screen deals on the like the first or second week of every month. Yeah. And they would get to pitch them 30 days later the price stressing and the number.
Peter: Of companies and I think like I got a meeting, I think I made it through like I've got a good chance of raising money here. I'm getting in front of all of these angels all at once and one swoop.
Jon: And then nothing happens like hardly any of them. Yeah, but maybe that's your one or two out of 100. Maybe I wasn't. Maybe I should be more sympathetic. But the numbers were.
Peter: Maybe I have no idea.
Jon: Maybe one out of a thousand. Maybe one out of 500. So super, super low. But yeah, some of these groups are doing more than that. But still. Anyway, I.
Peter: Went to this like combined angel meeting once the like it was like several different angel groups and one of the guys got up and was like, We have missed every single good deal in this market.
Jon: And I was like, Krieger and I talking now.
Peter: And it was funny. He's like, I know some of you individually have done it, but like as groups and I don't think they cared.
Jon: I feel like this was the Uta Angel discussion.
Peter: I mean, it probably happens with angel groups all over the country. Every year.
Jon: I just think that angel groups really aren't investment groups. They're really networking.
Peter: Groups. Yeah, for sure.
Jon: Under the banner of We Want to Invest.
Peter: Yeah, it's like the Rotary Club for accredited investors.
Jon: Not much happens from it.
Peter: So now we're going to have a bunch of, like, disgruntled angels. Yeah, we do invest. We're not like those other guys.
Jon: All the same. Couple people in the group use it to actually invest for us. Just want to hang out that one or two people that do invest.
Jon: Is Mike Leventhal. Is he still at the park? The angels are retired.
Peter: And he's still investing.
Jon: It. Is he? Wow. I was one of the angels of the Park City angels. I had mad respect for this. It was doing deals.
Peter: Yeah. These are good investments. So he's a tough cookie, but he's a good investor.
Jon: But yeah, I mean, he did he's done a lot of deals here in the state. All right. What about University Growth Fund? I know it's been a while. I was wondering if you could give us an update. What's been happening, what you've invested in.
Peter: Yeah, we've been busy. We've been investing in a bunch of stuff, looking at a lot of things. The last year we did that. I'm super excited about a company called Ira Logic's okay, so super not sexy business, frankly.
Peter: But they're based out of Pittsburgh. Okay? And what they do is that if you are a big money manager, you know, you're like a fidelity or something. You have likely a ton of these orphaned for 1k4001k accounts. Okay. You know, this is the kind of thing where, like maybe you worked at a tech company for a couple of years, you threw in a couple thousand bucks into your four on K because they matched it, you know, whatever.
Peter: And then you left. And in that that 401k accounts got like five grand in it, you know, based on the regular the regulations, they have to keep maintaining it and sending you statements and all of this stuff. Right. But like they're not making any money. They're losing money on it. Right. The amount of money that it requires for fidelity to like, keep that account active.
Peter: Right. Costs them more than they're generating and like interest on the account. Right.
Peter: So what Ira Logix has done is they built this really great software that goes in and takes those unprofitable assets and makes them profitable and then gives those customers, those people that own the 401k accounts with this really great white labeled solution that's, you know, similar to like almost like a Robinhood kind of thing where they can manage their their investments and it takes something that was unprofitable and makes it profitable into and for for these big money managers.
Peter: And so yeah I mean with I think it's super interesting because the sell is basically like hey you know those thing, those accounts that you're losing money on, they're huge distraction that like kind of weighing you down like work with us and we'll flip it around, make it profitable, like that seems like a no brainer. And it's you know, it's an industry that's kind of overlooked and and, you know, and I think there's also, like this really cool, like social story that goes along with it, too, which is, you know, the vast majority of their account holders aren't super wealthy people, and yet they're giving them the tools that the super wealthy have access to.
Peter: And so there's a little bit of a like a democratization or a leveling the playing field story there as well. That I think is really exciting.
Peter: So yeah, that's how Ira Rolodex excited about that. When did that deal go down? like, like last month.
Jon: Okay. Is it I assume it's public, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Jon: About like, have you done since then that aren't public. So how many are in the pipeline that you think will close One.
Peter: To like three that we've done that aren't public that I can't talk about yet.
Peter: But then I am pumped about.
Jon: So I written the check or you've signed the contract or both.
Peter: Yeah. Something along those lines. And then we've got Yeah. Three that I can't disclose and then like three that are trending towards closing. Okay. And those are varying levels, like two of them we've committed, we just haven't wired the money yet. Okay. And, and then yeah, one more that's really, really close.
Jon: Okay. So how long does it take to get you from close to writing the check or committing?
Peter: It varies. We've done it in as little as a week and a half and we've, which is really tight. but I would say like we like, you know, 4 to 6 weeks. Like most venture funds.
Jon: Okay. How many have you done this year outside of that? So we've got three that are in the pipeline, three that you've done, three that are actually closed.
Peter: I mean including follow ons are not including follow ons either.
Jon: Let's break it out. Having fallen, have you done you don't typically do follow ons, do you? That was what we did.
Jon: Don't give a specific allocation of your fund. No. Is that common for funds in.
Jon: To say, hey, 20% of this fund is set aside to allocate to double.
Peter: Down? No, I mean we do reserve but so our goal is be a couple of million dollars deployed per deal. Okay. So if we write a half million dollar check into an earlier stage round, maybe reserve 1.5, if we do a later stage where we're only going to write one check, maybe it's one and a half to two, it's kind of depends.
Peter: Okay, let's see. New deals that we've done this year or so. We I know we've talked about Kody in the past. That's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, seven, plus.
Jon: The three pending of the three that you've already committed this year. Like 1.3 deals a month or two deals in the months.
Peter: And then like follow ons, we were about ready to close one more, so one to close on closing that. So it'd be three votes on that one. That would be four five.
Jon: What is this, a Google sheet you're looking at?
Peter: This is our internal tracking. Okay, six, seven.
Jon: What do you use to track deals internally?
Peter: So eight, eight, eight four. Okay. Like either closed or in process of closing, I just have a whole custom sheet that I've built on our table to track everything.
Jon: Yeah. So you've done like eight follow ons and then seven new deals?
Peter: Yeah, we've been busy.
Peter: I mean, I like the deals we've done. I mean, I'm excited about them, Right. What are some.
Jon: Of the in this funds that you're, you're like what's your three top favorites.
Peter: On the site. Like choosing my children.
Peter: That That's my favorite I'll I'll tell you some of the ones that I'm excited about. How about that? Okay. So I'm a I'm a huge fan of lies. WIC you have about. They're smart, Cam. You said they're cool. Okay. Yeah. Basically, I saw them at Home Depot and was blown away that you could buy this, like, smart camera for 25 bucks or whatever it was.
Peter: So I bought one right on the spot and then find all the way to meet with the management team. Just really impressed. We ended up investing at the end of 2020.
Jon: So you saw them and said, I want to invest in track to track them down, not Hey, check out my product. And then you saw it. Yeah.
Peter: And I tracked him down. Yeah.
Jon: How often does that happen? You just stumble across something?
Peter: I don't know. I look at a lot of stuff, so. Yeah, I stumble across stuff all the time. Okay. I don't know. Deals come from all different places.
Jon: I think Sphero was the one of the largest deals that saw Sphero and Lucy chart. Yeah, the largest deals that came across my desk.
Peter: Yeah. So anyways. Yeah. Why is it really cool? Really excited about what they're doing. They're basically saying like, hey, you know, we're going to, we're going to sell these products at a very low price point so that people can actually afford to wire up their whole home. Smart doorbell, smart lights, smart cameras, smart thermostat, smart scales. Right. And then when we come out, the new light as great as like it's actually affordable to upgrade everything.
Peter: And so you retain these customers and build a ton of loyalty. And then they've got this great software product that people sign up for and they they buy on a subscription basis. So, you know, I love it because one, I'm kind of a nerd when it comes to Iot stuff and into like the other products are great and of the brand, everything.
Peter: So that's one that I really like. Yeah, another company is a company here in Utah called Pattern.
Peter: they basically help brands sell more through marketplaces like Amazon. And what I think is interesting about their model is that they kind of put their money where their mouth is. So rather than having product like, rather than just being like an ad agency, they actually will buy the product from brands, hold an inventory and ship it out to customers.
Peter: And so they kind of own that whole like experience on Amazon and they win when you win. And so like really good alignment with their customers doing incredibly well and growing really fast so, you know, super pumped about them like up and then, you know, one of our recent investments is a company called Game Time that I think is super interesting.
Peter: So game time does last minute ticket sales for sports. And, you know, if you think about the last couple of years in like 20, 20, like sports, live events, all of that like disappeared overnight company, you know of course like went through a tough spot there right But what was great is they they bounced back immediately. And I think part of the reason that they bounce back is that they created this really great user experience.
Peter: So if you go on Ticketmaster, it's an insane number of like clicks or taps or whatever to buy your tickets. And even when you buy them, like things get messed up. It's confusing the communications bad. Like it's it's not a great experience. And on game time you're like three clicks and you got your tickets and and then you add in like this last minute aspect of it where if you've got tickets and you need to sell them, whether you're a wholesaler or you're an individual, you can list them on game time and they'll automatically drop the price as you get closer and closer to to the event.
Peter: And so they're more likely to sell the tickets, which is great for wholesalers, right? Because like some car, like the fixed costs are set and they're paid for. So like selling one more ticket, almost any level is a benefit. And then the last piece that I think is really interesting is their consumer is a totally different consumer in a lot of ways than the one that's going to Ticketmaster is the person that's like, Hey, what are we going to do tonight?
Peter: Let me open up game time, see where the cheap tickets are, and let's go to a concert. Let's go to a sporting event, let's go to whatever. And so, you know, they're not really cannibalizing ticket sales from, you know, that diehard jazz fan that's going to buy their tickets six months in advance. Right. And so they're really like opening up this whole other side of the market that I think is interesting.
Peter: So yeah, because when we first like that was like really like another like ticketing platform, like another amount like StubHub and like all these other Seatgeek. But clearly, like they've built this, this great user base, this great user experience. And I think again, that's why they bounce back so quickly.
Jon: Yeah, so and the other is you want to give a shout out to have you done anything like Web3 deals.
Peter: Haven't done any Web3 the closest to crypto is we're an investor in prime trust.
Peter: Trust? So Prime trust does backend infrastructure for crypto and web three platforms. Okay, so on ramps, off ramps, custody escrow, like all the regulatory stuff essentially that they need to do in order to be compliant if you're an exchange or what? Or Web three app or what have you. So yeah.
Jon: Okay. What is your thesis on that space?
Peter: Look, I think Crypto's going to go through a rough winter, okay? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I, I wouldn't. Let me put it this way. It won't surprise me if crypto drops like, Bitcoin drops another like five or six grand.
Peter: And I think it will probably reside in that low area for like a year.
Jon: I have a friend, Jon Rampton, when it was at 60, 64,000. Maybe it's higher. I don't I don't remember the highest. But he is like over a year ago. He says it's going to drop to like 20 players in the cap. Yeah. And I'm like, No way, you're crazy. Yeah, here we are.
Peter: Here we are. I bet it drops a little bit more. yeah, I mean, we'll see. But, you know, like, this is what it's done every single time it causes spikes up to a bubble, then everyone's like, it's never going to go any higher than the something happens, right? You know, it collapses. Lots of people lose a lot of money because it gets hacked.
Peter: Right? That happens every single time. Like all these things, like trust is essentially lost in the system. And then it then it goes down and it spends its time in the wilderness and then somebody comes up with some new, unique, cool thing. And that creates a bunch of value and that brings it back up, right? So last time it was initial coin offerings.
Peter: This time it's like NFT and Web3. I don't know, it'll be next time there will be some new cool tech that's built on it. I think ultimately though, like cryptocurrency blockchain's here to stay, there's going to be some cool stuff that's done in Web3 I think most of the companies that are Web3 are going to fail, but there will be a couple that come out of that that are really interesting.
Peter: We just don't know yet which ones those are.
Jon: So yeah. Awesome. Well, any other updates you want to share?
Peter: I don't know. Any updates in your life. What's the latest with Code Base?
Jon: The latest with code base, We just keep going, chugging away, doing our thing.
Peter: Yeah. How has the current market impacted you guys?
Jon: The current market is this end, I think with a lot of our clients because we do. We've got some clients that do north of half a million in revenue and we've got other clients that are starting so there is definitely a lot of churn in the startup space here and luckily it's like one of those moments when you look back and your you're grateful you were, you were able to place everyone.
Jon: Yeah, but like, look at me like two or three months ago I was stressed, stressed out, you know, how do I make your plug spots? What's the market? Continue they're going to do. I mean, there is a period where every Friday I was looking at the S&P 500 because.
Jon: Watching it drop, trying to feel like, is there a recession coming? Yeah. How does that affects, you know, developers? I think the big thing that's like I mean, for example, we were at a point we were trying to place on average about we would have about ten open positions and have significantly dropped since then. I think right now my gut is people are trying to figure out like what's happening.
Jon: Plus we're ending the close of the year. So like budgets have been kind of spent in some aspects. So usually for us, February is kind of where we pick up again.
Peter: Yeah. Do you anticipate that, like if startups start really struggling that larger companies will be looking for solutions like code base where they can maybe get some more flexibility, get some cost savings, and maybe like I can see a shift in spend from like startups to AI to larger companies.
Jon: I think startups and large companies, it's more it's just a talent more right now. Yeah, I think when I first started Code Base, there was for every job, for every four job openings, there's one developer.
Jon: And I don't think that's change. If anything, I think it's probably it's gotten worse.
Jon: So but yeah we'll we'll see what happens. It is interesting to see what's happening with like the global economy and how that will affect things. Sure. Let's probably ten, 20 years out. I imagine, you know, the benefits of outsourcing longer term will slowly decrease as communication tools are much more.
Peter: Of an equalizing. Yeah, that's fair.
Jon: But I think there will always be people who want to hire companies that have a proven track record of being able to build and execute. Yeah, and that's really hard to find.
Peter: So yeah, I think what needs to happen like so as you know, I bought a condo down in Puerto Vallarta with some family members and, you know, going down there, I had a renter who is working in security in Silicon Valley, like with a first startup or a tech company. And he was like, yeah, I'm going to buy a condo out on hearing.
Peter: And I just moved down here because it's so much cheaper and better lifestyle and frankly safer, which is a little surprising.
Jon: San Francisco's pretty crazy, though.
Jon: But one out of every two trips I see a car that's broken into.
Peter: Yeah. So, you know, and he was like, look, I can live on the beach for a third of what I'm paying to live in a shoebox in San Francisco. And but it got me thinking like, you know, what would it take to have, like, really great people down in Puerto Vallarta, right? Like, you'd need to set up a school.
Peter: You need to train people like, all of those things. And I wonder, like, how much longer it will take before those types of things happen because you have all of these people and all this human capital that's being underutilized essentially, right? Because on the one hand, like you said, there's like four developer jobs for every developer that's out there.
Peter: But like there are people that are smart, Like we just need to and there's lots of them all over the world. We just need a better way of like educating them, giving them experience and then connecting them to those jobs. And as technology gets better, like this guy, right, Like he can live anywhere in the world that he wants to, essentially because like all of this whole work is virtual.
Peter: And so, yeah, I just wonder, like, as things develop, like, how does that happen and when will that happen?
Jon: And I mean, I think I think there's definitely been a shift for people to go remote. Yeah. My thesis is that it's going to be a shift back, not to the same extent, but at the end of the day people get promoted by who spending time with the boss. So anyone that wants a pay raise, anyone who wants to be on a promotion track.
Peter: But what about companies like GitHub where they're like 100% virtual?
Jon: I think those are the anomalies. I think we'll start seeing more of those. But my guess is people aren't very good at remote management and GitHub is one of those very rare tools because there's analytics built into the tasks that everyone's working on and most companies don't have that and.
Peter: I don't think they'll find it over time. I mean, a lot of companies are right and there's a lot of like criticism that like so I don't know you could take brother you know boss is looking over my shoulder and tracking like.
Jon: You know this could be a confirmation bias. But my my firm belief is that people get promoted by their proximity to the boss.
Peter: And I think face time certainly matters.
Peter: But that face time doesn't always have to be like real face to face.
Jon: True. I mean, my guess is like at Code Base, we're looking at doing more of just a hybrid model, long term. Sure. Three days in the office with the team. Make sure you coordinate with the team that you're working with at the time. Yeah. And after that, you know, a couple days at home, a week, I think that's probably a much better work life balance.
Jon: I think there's also a percentage of people who like I mean, I think face too. I've been to India 27 times because I'm a believer of face to face interactions.
Peter: Yeah. And but you're not there all the time.
Jon: Not there all the time.
Jon: But like, part of that's job specific and I'm sure my wife would love that. And it'd be that'd be fun to spend more time in India.
Peter: So yeah, I mean I go into the office now once or twice a week and I love it. I think it's great, but I think a little bit of face time is important, but I don't think it's as important as.
Jon: To, as we're more used to some of these other tools. I think we're also the we're going to get better at reporting our tasks virtually. We're going to get better at providing updates. Yeah, not we're going to get used to self, you know, self-promoting like, hey, I did this, this, this versus B just.
Peter: Yeah, but well, maybe we're a little more results oriented versus face time oriented, which frankly wouldn't be a bad thing.
Jon: I've got a buddy who works for YouTube. He's adamant that all of YouTube's numbers in the department he's in are significantly better from work, from home.
Peter: Yeah, well, I mean, Facebook and Google, right? Both CEO are laying down the hammer like we got to perform. Right? And if you don't perform, you're out, right?
Jon: So yeah so I don't I don't I mean, yeah. So the market's crazy right now. We'll see what happens.
Peter: Yeah, well, glad you're still in business. Things are still going well.
Jon: You make it sound like we're dying. You're not dying.
Peter: I know you're doing great.
Jon: So probably our best year we've had every year. You're just been better. Better, better.
Peter: Let's get stoked for you guys ALL Thanks.
Jon: And we're stoked. Stoked for all the deals that you have invested in. So probably cut all this part out because it's the body part. No one wants to hear about good beats.
Peter: Everybody wants to hear about causeways. It's great. It's more insights. Anyway, thanks for joining us. Venture Capital podcast. Joining us on venture capital firm. Venture capital firm. You can find us on Apple and Spotify. Please like us, give us lots of stars.
Jon: You can see Peter's TikTok dances. So just go to venture capital, a lot of em. And there's the TED Talk where.
Peter: Banks check you next time.
Jon: You guys talking about.
